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Are Mormons Christians?

Archive for 200705     ( return to current blog )


 Rejection due to having the Wrong Pedigree
 

Modern Christian Protestantism and Catholicism certainly see themselves as properly consisting of the events and doctrines found in the New Testament. They also see themselves as equally disposed to historical, theological, and traditional developments of the many centuries that followed. Typical some theological rejection of Mormons as Christians has been the assertion that we do not share the history or theology or traditions of “real” Christians. Because we do not share the pedigree found in traveling through the Protestant Reformation and all those councils of bishops. In this assertion they must likewise admit that biblical revelation is inadequate in standing alone in defining “Christianity”. Additionally, those arguing this point must likewise recognize that this has absolutely nothing to do with a belief in Jesus Christ as Savior and God.



So many of you who reject us as Christians have been reluctant to share your remarks here. If you find yourself in “Camp Rejection”, I ask the following (should you wish to contribute):

Do you personally believe that Jesus Christ was the literal Son of God, that he had no mortal father?

Do you believe in the divinity of the historical Jesus?

Do you believe that Jesus had the power to perform miracles?

Do you believe that he took upon himself the sins of the world in some literal way, as a real transfer of real guilt?

Do you believe in some literal way Jesus died for us?

Do you believe in the literal bodily resurrection of Jesus?

Do you believe in a final judgment for all?

Do you believe in an afterlife at all?

Are you a Christian?

(I remain hopeful that you do share your convictions here, appropriately.)


Posted by Streisand at 9:45 PM - 8 Comments   Add a Comment  
 

 Distortion meets Fabrication
 

(Transcribed by Gecko the words of my wife, Streisand, who is in Honolulu Pro Bowl with Hawaii Special Olympics)

In addition to fabrication, the Protestant and Catholic reject the Mormon through distortion. They distort known LDS doctrines then criticize their distortions as if ours. They distort our dialogue and then criticize their distortions. There is nothing innocent about it, it being one of their primary strategies

Just this week in a brief exchange with Thomisticguy, I remarked in his lament of so little effort made by Protestants in strengthening the faith of the masses of weak membership and the finding of fresh members.

I wrote, “Imagine requiring your patrons to really change in order to return. Imagine expecting them to run the programs of the Church. Sacrificing for one's faith where it is a true principle brings God's confirming blessings.”

The Mormons do not have paid preachers or other integral positions filled by those who receive financial compensation. My point being, imagine a church filled with people so converted that they did ALL the work as the Lord ordered it to be done, charitably! Remember the Apostles of Jesus Christ while you think about that.

But I wrote it to no avail. Thomisticguy quickly stated, “To my knowledge, no denomination of orthodox Christianity has ever required the unconverted to “really change in order to return” to its public services. This, I believe, would be a violation of the spirit of Christ who was a “friend of sinners” and came to “seek and save the lost.” The church rightly requires that those who are converted demonstrate a change in behavior from sin to righteousness. Yet, even this is understood to be a life process of growth in God’s grace. On the other hand, LDS doctrine is grounded in a man-centered form of religious ethical behavior, so, it makes sense that people must “change in order to return” to an LDS church.”

The Mormons through Thomisticguy’s wild distortion commit a “violation of the spirit of Christ…to (have members) change in order to attend church”. He continues in his condemnation of his own distortion with, “LDS doctrine is grounded in a man-centered form of religious ethical behavior, so, it makes sense that people must ‘change in order to return’ to an LDS church.” Real smooth to grossly distort in order to justify the complete fabrication of our church now being uniquely “man-centered”.



Well, for the investigator, all are welcomed at our church services. Our own excommunicated are welcomed at our church services. We deny nobody access to our church services. The opposite view as stated by Thomisticguy is a FABRICATION. As for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints being “man-centered”, you better believe it. As was the case with the Church Christ established and the Priesthood stretching back several millennia prior to him, it too was “man-centered”. Read your Bible, please. Condemn us and you must condemn the Apostles and all the old testament prophets with them.

Womens organizations within the Mormon Church are decidedly "Women Centered" throughout. This worldwide organization is called the Relief Society and is the largest womens service organization in the world, I am told. Perhaps that is only the free world where we know little about the other world.

The fact remains, fabrications and distortions make for an impossible give and take with anti-Mormons.

Why the fabrications? Why the distortions? If what you have invites more members than it loses, why resort to such tactics? If what you have as a denomination loses more members than it gains, does that explain these tactical strategies?

"And blessed are all they who are persecuted for my name's sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

"And blessed are ye when men shall revile you and persecute, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake;

"For ye shall have great joy and be exceedingly glad, for great shall be your reward in heaven; for so persecuted they the prophets who were before you."


Posted by Streisand at 3:27 AM - 8 Comments   Add a Comment  
 

 Rejection through Name Calling
 

The lowest form of rejection is grounded in name calling. Many a people call The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints a CULT. Yet the word "cult" when used by an anti-Mormon declares it actually meaning, "They are of a religion I don't like." Use such a word to describe us and all that you are saying is that we are not to your liking. Modern day tests of a "cult" confirms the uselessness of the term.

What offends the mainline churches of any day continues to be the twisted "cultlike" characterizations applied to the Mormons today.

I challenge anyone to apply what they believe to be cult-like to us without condemning churches you take as Christians today.

===============================================================

News Item:
CNN.com
The Des Moines Register polled Republican caucus participants in Iowa last week. The results Romney 30 percent, McCain 18, Giuliani 17. Caucus participants are becoming more decided.

Posted by Streisand at 3:31 AM - 6 Comments   Add a Comment  
 

 A Definition that clearly does Not Work
 

Fundamentalists and other sectarians are free to define the word CHRISTIAN any way they want to (obviously) for their own purposes. They can define themselves as the only true Christians on the entire globe, pitifully small as this globe has become. And in so doing they can shut EVERYBODY else out, as long as the rest of Christendom understands that that is how they are using the language. As long as everybody else understands that coming from them the assertion that "Mormons aren't Christians" simply means "Mormons disagree with us."

Now who is this "us" anyway? Where everyone else outside a given family of Christian churches is said to be non-Christian. Should the Latter Day Saints be considered a part of the "family of Christian churches" that would be surveyed? Whether yes or no, one must assume in advance the results of such a survey. What is anti-Christian suddenly has become a monstrously circular argument forcing a logical fallacy.

My husband asked a marvelous question to those anti-Mormons (to the man and woman) frequenting Thomisticquy at the most active religious blog in Blogstream. The blog immediately became mute. He repeated the question. The blog continued in its muteness.

Here is what my husband asked them (I paraphrase):

"The New Testament of the Bible tells us that Paul most assuredly knew things, believed things that could not be shared with some Christians ( see 1 Cor. 3 1-2) or with any other Christians at all (2 Cor. 12: 2-4). Did his knowing and believing things NOT taught in the Bible, things unknown to other Christians, render Paul a 'non-Christian'?"

The answer where they couldn't go and can't go now is, Absolutely not. This specialized definition of Christian clearly doesn't work.


Posted by Streisand at 3:49 AM - 7 Comments   Add a Comment  
 

 Rejecting more than Mormons
 


If by Christian we mean someone who believes that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and the Savior of the World, that can be a Mormon. If by Christian we also require the believer to hold the Old and New Testaments as holy scripture and contain his teachings, that can be a Mormon.. If by Christian we also require the believer to acknowledge that God is three distinct divine beings, that is also Mormon. It is simply an accepted reality that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints hold to all these propositions. Certainly the Latter Day Saints differ from other Christians in some doctrinal interpretations. Christians differ in such ways from each other. That is, if anti-Mormons assert that only a certain plummage of water fowl can be an authentic duck, our plummage is of a different color. But these Mormons certainly share the basic attributes of what is a Christian.



However, if by Christian we adopt the sectarian meaning of "those people who believe as we" (certain Baptists, other Baptists, certain Western Catholics, other Eastern Catholics, certain Eastern Orthodox, other orthodox, many conferences and federations of Lutherans, the Presbyterian Church USA, other innumberable Presbyterians, varied Anglican Churches, Arminian Methodists, other Methodists, Universalists, Unitarians, Quakers, Jehovah Witnesses, Adventists), then the sect in question might be able to say that Mormons are not Christians - using the term in their very private and supremely exclusionary sense. But their use of personal definitions makes their charges against the mormons not only picky, but useless. Most importantly, it certainly has no bearing on whether Mormons believe in Jesus Christ.


What the average Christian (using the word inclusively) reader needs to be alert to, is that those who prefer the sectarian definition end up rejecting considerably more people than just the Latter Day Saints. But they refuse to acknowledge that disturbing problem. In the end, those who use the sectarian definition of Christian must acknowledge a world of unsaved people and define the "family of Christian churches" to be very small. Not even the Latter Day Saints would define being a Christian in such a limited way.


In saying that Mormons are not Christians, anti-Mormons are only saying "Mormons are not like us."

A big hug to my husband for helping me with the html.


Posted by Streisand at 10:35 AM - 7 Comments   Add a Comment  
 
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